Title: Imitation of Christ Author: Thomas A. Kempis
Study Start Date: Jan 1, 2010 Study End Date:
Links related to this study:
While physically a smaller book, it has small print and is spirtually deep. It is organized into 4 books with a 114 chapters in all. Estimate: 3-4 months to read, maybe longer.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday January 17th, 2010:
Attendees: J. Hudson and J. Campbell
After a long holiday break, the group is just getting back into the swing of things. Both Jeff and Joe have been reading the "Imitation of Christ" on our own and agree it is a GREAT read. We'll start from the beginning next week...
Update 1/22/2010: Dave Collins is in Haiti helping out medically in the aftermath of their earthquake.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 27th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, and J. Campbell
Got thru page 15 in Chapter 1 in Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 25th, 2009:
Attendees: No one attended.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 18th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, and J. Campbell
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 11th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, and J. Campbell
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 4th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, and J. Campbell
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 27th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, and J. Campbell
Got thru page 15 in Chapter 1 in Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 20th, 2009:
Attendees: P. Jasheway, J. Hudson, D. Collins, D. Brown and J. Campbell
This is the first time in several weeks we've had a full group. Summer is over! Completed the book: St. Paul and discussed what books we'd like to tackle next.
We decided the next two books:
1) Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence - The Secret of Peace and Happiness. By Fr. Jean Baptiste Saint-Jure.
2) The Imitation of Christ by Thomas A. Kempis.
Discussed and agreed we are "much MORE THAN a Catholic Men's Book Club"!
Jeff H. will be ordering the next book - 4 copies. We'll get more if needed.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 13th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson
Went solo this week. :-) We have the final chapter (20) to finish before we begin a new book.
Now is a great time for anyone interested in joining the group to jump in... We meet Sunday mornings from 7am-8:30am at Martin's (Cleveland/Hilltop Rd) in the upper balcony of the food court.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 6th, 2009:
Attendees: D. Collins, J. Campbell
Completed review and discussion of chapters 17-19.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 16th, 2009:
Attendees: P. Jasheway, J. Hudson and J. Campbell
Completed review and discussion of chapters 13 and 14th. We'll review Chapters 15 and 16 next week (Aug 23rd).
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 9th, 2009:
Attendees: D. Collins, P. Jasheway
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 2nd, 2009:
Attendees: J. Campbell, P. Jasheway
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 26th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Campbell, J. Hudson
We agreed to review chapters 1-11 next week. Assignment is to read Chpt 12-15. The past few weeks due to people's schedules, there's not been much progress made with the book discussion so we have some catch up to do.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 19th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Campbell, P. Jasheway
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 12th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Campbell, D. Collins
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 5th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Campbell, D. Collins
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 28th, 2009:
Attendees:
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 21st, 2009:
Attendees:
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 14th, 2009:
Attendees: P. Jasheway, J. Hudson, E. Nichols, P. Sirk, J. Campbell and Fr. Dan Doctor
Jeff distributed what copies he had to the group. Books are $14 each. Ed took an extra copy for Dave Collins. We also presented a signed copy to Fr. Dan as a going away gift. We've enjoyed his Sunday morning company and learned much about our Catholic faith from him. He will be truly missed.
A suggestion was made to start up a online discussion forum so he might be able to participate in future book studies. That is being looked into. Next week we'll begin review Chpts 1 thru 3.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 7th, 2009:
Attendees: D. Brown, P. Jasheway, J. Hudson, D. Collins, E. Nichols, P. Sirk and J. Campbell.
Discussed the new book we'll begin next week called: St. Paul It is written by Pope Benedict XVI. It has 20+ chapters some of which are only 6-7 pages in length. The year of St. Paul ends at the end of this month, then we begin the Year of the Priest.
Jeff Hudson has ordered the books which are $14 each. He'll let people know when they arrive so if people want to pick them up at his house sooner they can.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 31st, 2009:
Attendees: D. Brown, E. Nichols, P. Sirk, P. Jasheway and J. Campbell.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 24th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, Fr. D. Docter, D. Collins, E. Nichols, P. Sirk and J. Campbell.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 17th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, Fr. D. Docter, D. Collins, E. Nichols, P. Sirk and J. Campbell.
Covered Chapter 18, 19 and 20. We will begin Chapt 21 next week. The final two chapters should be completed next week. Bring any suggestions to the next meeting for our next read. Jeff H. brought a new book on St. Paul by Pope Benedict XVI. It is 20+ small chapters and looks like a fast read. Since this is the "Year of St. Paul", this could be a good fit for the group - if people want.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 10th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, J. Campbell
Didn't cover much ground on Mother's Day.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 3rd, 2009:
Attendees: S. Jones, J. Hudson, Fr. D. Docter, D. Collins, E. Nichols, P. Sirk and J. Campbell.
Covered Chapter 15, 16 and 17. Will begin with Chapter 18 next Sunday May 10th.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday April 26th, 2009:
Attendees: P. Sirk, S. Jones, E. Nickel, Fr. D. Docter, D. Brown, J. Hudson, J. Campbell.
Reviewed Chapter 13 and 14 (again!). Will begin with Chapter 15 next Sunday May 3rd.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday April 19th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins and J. Campbell.
Covered Chapter 13 and 14. Will begin with Chapter 15 next Sunday April 26th.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday April 5th, 2009 (Palm Sunday):
Attendees: Fr Dan Doctor, Ed. Nichols, Scott Jones, P. Jasheway, J. Hudson, D. Collins and P. Sirk.
Covered Chapter 12. Next weekend is EASTER and Martin's won't be open. Will resume the following week and plan to cover Chapters 13-15.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday March 29th, 2009:
Attendees: Fr Dan Doctor, Ed. Nichols, Scott Jones, D. Brown, J. Campbell, J. Hudson, D. Collins and P. Sirk.
Covered Chapters 10 thru most of chpt 12 in the Book of Revelation. Next week plan to review chpt 12, them proceed into chpts 13 thru 15. Welcome new attendee to the meeting: Phil Sirk
Weekly Discussion for Sunday March 22nd, 2009:
Attendees: Fr Dan Doctor, Ed. Nichols, Scott Jones, D. Brown, J. Campbell, J. Hudson, D. Collins and P. Jasheway.
Covered Chapters 7 thru 9 in the Book of Revelation. Next week plan to cover chapters 10 thru 12.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday March 15th, 2009:
Attendees: Fr Dan Doctor, Ed. Nichols, Scott Jones, D. Brown, J. Campbell, J. Hudson, D. Collins, M. Smith and P. Jasheway.
Covered Chapters 4 thru 6 in the Book of Revelation. Next week plan to cover chapters 7 thru 9.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday March 8th, 2009:
Attendees: Fr Dan Doctor, Ed. Nichols (new), Scott Jones (new), D. Brown, J. Campbell - later J. Hudson, M. Smith and P. Jasheway.
There was some mixup due to the time change this am.
Began with review of the 1st three chapters of the Book of Revelation. Will try to stick to a pace of 3 chapters (22 total in the book) per week. We had people bringing in several different sources: Protestant book from Barclay, New American Bible, Revised Standard Version (RSV) - Navarrre Bible, Scott Hahn - The Lamb's Supper, and others... This looks like it will be some good discussion as we get further on into Revelation.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday February 22nd, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, Fr Dan Doctor, D. Collins, M. Smith and J. Campbell
Completed Chapter 9. Will finish up Chapter 10 next week and be finished with Eusibius - Early Church History.
The following week - March 8th we'll begin reading Revelation. Guys are to bring your New American Bible and any other reading material related to understanding or interpreting this book of the bible (e.g. Scott Hahn). We had a brief discussion regarding the distinction between "literal" and "literalist" view of this book.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday February 15th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, Fr Dan Doctor, D. Collins, M. Smith, D. Brown and J. Campbell
Completed Book/Chapter 8. Will begin on Book/Chapt 9 next week. We are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel - 2 more chapters to go.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday February 8th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, Fr Dan Doctor, D. Collins and J. Campbell
Completed Book/Chapter 7. Will begin on Book/Chapt 8 next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday February 1st, 2009:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Brown, Fr Dan Doctor and J. Campbell
Completed Book 6. We'll begin on page 221 at the start of Book 7.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday January 25th, 2009:
Attendees: D. Collins, J. Hudson and J. Campbell
Began on Page 179 at the start of Book 6 and got thru Page 190 to "The Works of Clement".
Agreed the pace at which we are moving is slow. Agreed to set a schedule of coving 1 book per week.
Feb 1 - Finish Book 6 Feb 8 - Finish Book 7 Feb 15 - Finish Book 8 Feb 22 - Finish Book 9 Mar 1 - Finish Book 10. Mar 8 - Begin new book. The three of us thought "Revelation" would be a good read rather than jump back into Early Christian Writings as originally planned. Everyone will have to read ahead and stick to the above schedule if we want to move forward at a quicker pace.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday January 18th, 2009:
Attendees: D. Collins, M. Smith, D. Brown, J. Campbell and Fr. D. Doctor
Began on Page 160 at "Montanus and his band of false prophets". We made it thru the rest of Book 5. We'll begin on page 179 at that start of Book 6 next time.
The waiting is over - Phil and his wife Julie announced the birth of their new baby boy - Anthony Luke Jasheway. Born 1-16-2009 weighing 8lbs 2oz and 20.5 inches long. Their prayers were answered and everyone is healthy and happy!
Fr. Dan followed-up on some questions from last week regarding celibacy and the priesthood. Explained distinction between Doctrine (pope and chair of Peter), Ordinary Magistarium (pope in union with bishops) and Extra Ordinary Magistarium (universal acceptance by bishops). The church's position evolved over several councils: 303AD, 325AD, 403AD and 1200. He also clarified the meaning of a "confessor" as one who had suffered for the faith (not martyr) and someone a person had to go to get back into the church if they had left it or sinned. The notion of regular confessions didn't exist yet back in the early church.
Some discussion about truth and reality. Dave mentioned a good web site called: www.snopes.com to help confirm or deny rumors one might hear on the internet and so-called urban legends.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday January 11th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, M. Smith, P. Jasheway, D. Brown, J. Campbell,
Began on Page 130 at "The Epistles of Bishop Dionysius of Corinth. Ended on Page at "Montanus and his band of false prophets" in Book 5.
Phil brought in a book he picked up called: The Catholic Faith Handbook - For Youth 2nd Edition St. Mary's Press. It has some good timelines in it to help provide a frame of reference for some of our discussions.
Dave B. brought in a book he picked up called: How the Reformation Happened - Martin Luther by Hilaire Belloc Looks like a good read as we had much discussion on timing and cause of the Reformation.
Marty will be out the next two weeks on business travel.
Phil and his wife Julie are expecting (37 weeks) and baby is expected next weekend. He's been good about keeping the "boy" or "girl" news a secret :-) We are all praying that the delivery goes well. Keep their family in your prayers.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday January 4th, 2009:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Collins, M. Smith, P. Jasheway, D. Brown, J. Campbell, Fr. D. Doctor.
Began on page 110 in the section entitled: Church Writers. Ended on Page 130 at "The Epistles of Bishop Dionysius of Corinth.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday December 28th, 2008:
Attendees: None - Holiday
Weekly Discussion for Sunday December 21st, 2008:
Attendees: D. Brown, M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, P. Jasheway, J. Campbell and Fr D. Doctor:
We started on Page 96 at the section titled: Christian-hunting stopped by Trajan. We finished up on Page 110 and will begin next week at the section titled: writers. Between these pages, we completed Book/Chapter 3: Vespasian to Trajan: Enemies within the Church and are now into Book/Chapter 4: Trajan to Marcuc Aurelius: Bishops.
One work referenced: Defence of the Faith by Quadratus.
Fr. Dan cited another read entitled: Dissent from the Creed. It's about heresies of the Catholic Church starting in 44AD. Added this reference to a new section of the site called: Books to Consider Looks like a great read!
A key point to keep in mind in the early church was the importance of Apostolic Succession. It was vital to defending the church against heresies which sprouted up since the time of the early church fathers.
Here is a wonderful exerpt about the Catholic Church found on page 110, which I enjoyed:
"But the splendor of the Catholic and only true Church, alays remaining the same and unchanged, grew steadily in greatness and strength, shedding on every race of Greeks and non-Greeks alike the majestic, spotless, free, sober, pure light of her inspired citizenship and philosophy. Thus the passage of time extinguished the calumnies against the whole of our doctrine, and our teaching remained alone, everywhere victorious and acknowledged as supreme in dignity and sobriety, in divine and philosophic doctrines, so that no one today could dare to subject our Faith to vile abuse or to any such misrepresentation as in the past those who conspired against us were in the habit of using."
Weekly Discussion for Sunday December 14th, 2008:
Attendees: D. Brown, M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, P. Jasheway, J. Campbell and Fr D. Doctor:
We started on Page 80 at the section titled: Domitian's persecution: John the apostle and our Saviour's relatives. We finished up on Page 96 and will begin next week at the section titled: Christian-hunting stopped by Trajan.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday December 7th, 2008:
Attendees: D. Brown, M. Smith, J. Hudson and J. Campbell:
We started on Page 65 at the beginning of Book 3 and finished up on page 80 at the section titled: Domitian's persecution: John the apostle and our Saviour's relatives.
Discussed the seige of Jerusalem. Historians indicate 1.1 million Jews died due to famine and the sword. Noted this was one generation or 40 years after the death of Christ that the Jewish nation perished under Roman rule. Did they get what was deserved for putting Christ to death?
We talked againabout the 3 James: The Greater, The Lesser and The Righteous. Talked about the Church Canon and the various book that make up the bible (at the time of Christ). Some question of the 2nd Petrine epistle sparked this discussion. Dave mentioned that isn't wasn't till later 100AD (?) that the Jews removed (or made official) their canon which excluded someold old testament books around at the time of Jesus. We made note of the fact that the Gospel of Luke (is an account of Peter's travels) and the Gospel of Luke (is an account of Paul's travels).
Discussed some apologetics and is the eucharist a form of cannabalism (mentioned the movie ALIVE of a plane wreck and surviors eating flesh).
Mentioned a DVD video out called Common Ground. An interview with a Catholic Priest on what Catholics believe and dispels some myths of Catholics that Protestants have.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday November 30th, 2008:
Attendees: D. Collins, D. Brown, J. Campbell and Fr. Dan Doctor:
We started on Page 54 in Book 2 and made it to the end of that book (pg 64). Next week, we'll begin Book 3 discussion. Discussed Philo extensive works; while in Rome during Gaius (aka Caligula) time (37 - 41 AD) he wrote of the emperor's revolting conduct.
Then Claudius replaced Gaius/Caligula, Philo was so greatly admired he read his works to the Roman Senate. At this time, Paul was completing his journey from Jerusalem and Claudius expelled all the Jews from Rome. Many fled to Asia Minor to stay with Paul, the Apostle, who was building the church foundation there. During his reign, a riot erupted during a Passover feast and 30,000 jews were trampled to death in the temple. Claudius appoints Agrippa, son of Agrippa King of the Jews and sent Felix as procurator of the whole country. Claudius reigned for 13 years 8 months, before he died and the throne turned over to Nero.
During Nero reign, Felix was procurator of Judea. Much discourse between priests broke out. The city acted as if it had no government. Bandits sprang up within Jerusalem. Daylight murders were common via small daggers under the garments - records Josephus. Fear was rampant in the city and there was no law and order.
There was an uprising lead by an Egyptian false prophet who commanded 30,000 dupes. Their revolt was anticipated by Felix and squashed. Worth noting that in the Acts of the Apostles the military tribuneral against Paul made reference to this Jews mob uprising asking him " Then you're not the Egyptian who a little while back started a revolt?".
As successor to Felix, Nero sent Festus. This was when Paul was put on trial (50 - 60 AD) and Luke who committed to writing the Acts of the Apostles ended his story at this point. Luke explained that Paul spent 2 full years preaching in Rome unrestrained. Then while imprisoned, he composed the second Epistle to Timothy before his martyrdom.
Because Paul had appealed to Caesar he was sent to Rome by Festus. The Jews disappointed the plot against him didn't succeed, they turned their attention to James, the Lord's Brother (aka James the Righteous). The detailed account of James martyrdom was written by Hegesippus, who belonged to the first generation after the apostles. He was thrown down from a parapet and clubbed to death. Fr. Dan commented on the double meaning of the phrase James used to address the crowd "Door of Jesus". Gate while it meant a doorway, also referred to death.
Immediately, after the death of James, Vespasian (appointed by Nero) began to besiege the City of Jerulsalem. Eusebius references Josephus and others several times that the Jews brought upon the persecution upon themselves, first with the crucifiction of Christ and persecution of the apostles. The wrath of God if you will.
Nero was the first emperor to declare enemy of the worship of Almighty God and openly attack and persecute anyone beliving in God. He was a monster and went so far as to have many of his own family and friends killed. During his reign, Paul was beheaded and Peter crucified (upside down). The record shows the cemeteries are stilled called Peter and Paul. Fr. Dan having been to Rome twice was able to elaborate on the tomb of St. Peter and underground tomb and how it was constructed. Fascinating...
The Jewish leaders and people were killed and persecuted... most notably around the 12th year of Nero and any form of revolt by the Jews was dealt with quickly and severely.... such was the account of Josephus of the plight of the Jewish people.
Fr. Dan explained about the bishops, Arch-Bishops, Metropolitan, Cardinals and the organization structure of the church. Interesting to note the careful attention to genealolgy or lineage the church takes in the appointment of a bishop (or priest for that matter). It requires 3 bishops present during the ordination of a bishop in the catholic church, so this lineage can be documented and recorded. Many heresy in the past were proven as such due to Apostolic Succession and their inability to trace lineage back to the apostles and Jesus Christ. Joe to follow-up and see if we can determine the lineage of Bishop James Murray of our own Dioceses.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday November 23rd, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, M. Smith, J. Campbell:
We made it to page 53 in Book 2 - We got a little off-track talking Turkey (with Thanksgiving coming up) but also had some good discussion about the book of Revelation regarding different interpretations. Jeff mentioned Scott Hahn's The Lamb's Supper book with talks about Revelation and how it all ties to the Eucharist. Marty's to write a book on his methodology for using magic markers to highlight reading material. :-)
Weekly Discussion for Sunday November 16th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Brown, J. Campbell, D. Collins, Fr. Dan Docter.
We made it to page 48 in Book 2 - The addition of Fr. Dan helped keep us on track this week!
Weekly Discussion for Sunday November 9th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, M. Smith, J. Campbell, D. Collins
We made it to page 39 in Book 2 - Tiberius to Nero - The Apostles.
Some discussions about the past week's election results.
There was reference to a list of 70 disciples at the time of Jesus in addition to the 12 Apostles.
Much discussion about Joseph and the fate of his other children in particular James the brother of Jesus? What happen to Joseph? Seems to have disappeared from scripture about the time Jesus as a boy was found in the temple. Are there any other early church writings that may provide some clue to what happened to Joseph.
The letter Jesus wrote to King Abgar is fascinating (page 31). It's amazing information like this isn't in scripture !! The Story about Thaddaeus
Weekly Discussion for Sunday November 2nd, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, J. Campbell, D. Collins, D. Brown.
We made it to page 29 in Book 1 - Christ and his contemporaries.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 26th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, M. Smith, J. Campbell, D. Collins, P. Jasheway
We made it to page 16 in Book 1 - Christ and his contemporaries.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 19th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Brown, J. Campbell, D. Collins
Wow! we almost made it out of the Introduction. .
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 12th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Brown, J. Campbell, D. Collins, P. Jasheway
We didn't get far in the book today. After some conversation regarding the Greg Walton concert last night at St. Bernards, we had many discussions regarding the Early church involving: Indulgences .. what they were; Follow-up discussion regarding what old testament books were included in the church. Some differences between, Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Protestant collections were mentioned; Discussion about the vatican; St. Peter's Basilica (actual build over St. Peter's tomb)... We begin with Chapt 1 next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday October 5th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, D. Brown, J. Campbell, P. Jasheway
Dave Brown brought copies of our next book, "Early Christian Writings". Due to Marty taking off on business the next few weeks, we jumped into Eusebius last week. Phil made an astute observation... the back of Eusebius contains a "Who's Who in Eusebius" no one had noticed yet. It helps in understanding the many names referenced throughout the text. Some discussion was had regarding the apologetic benefit of studying the early Church fathers and writings and where protestant and catholics differ. Goal for next week is to get thru the Introduction and Chapt 1 - Christ and his Contempories. This book has fine print and the reading WILL BE slow going, but good!
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 28th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Brown, J. Campbell
Dave Brown brought copies of Eusebius for the entire group. He had another book on order, but it had not arrived yet. The group decided to proceed ahead with reading of "Eusebius - The History of the Church". Goal for next week is the Introduction and Chapt 1 - Christ and his Contempories. This book has fine print and the reading may be a bit slow going.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 21st, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, D. Brown, J. Campbell
The group reviewed several possible books to read next and settled on a "Penguin publications" style summary of Early Church Fathers. The approach was to start at the beginning (pre-Nicene) and look at an overview of this time period. Then we could drill down into some specific writings/fathers (e.g. Eusebuis) later if we chose. Dave Brown will do some research and email the rest of the group. Goal is to have a book in hand for next week's meeting.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday September 14th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, D. Brown, J. Campbell
We finished the book "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis.
This was another great book by CS Lewis and there was much discussion about each of the various "ghosts" and dialogue within the story. We had to remind ourselves (and Lewis did too) that this is just fiction.
Some discussion about Purgatory and if/where it is referenced in the Catholic Catechism. Marty pointed out and read text from the Catechism and the churches position w/ scriptural references.
List of Phantom/Ghosts in the Story:
- The Big Man. His Bright/Solid person was a former co-worker, Len, who murdered someone called "Jack". The Big Man thinks Len ought not be in Heaven. Big Man went on and on about how he always lead a "straight" life and is just asking for nothing but his "rights". Lou points out that the Big Man wasn't a decent man. First, Lou points out murdering Jack wasn't the worst thing he did. He murdered the "Big Man" in his heart every night thinking of what he could do to him. The Big Man made it very hard on all the people who worked for him in his lifetime. He turns away and heads back to the Bus. (Chpt 4: pg 26-31)
- The Intelligent Episcopal Ghost. His Bright/Solid person was named Dick and a former friend whom he exchanged many talks with. He thinks the Grey Town he was in a sense Heaven. Dick pointed out it is Hell, but if he doesn't go back may call it Purgatory. He was sent there because he is an Apostate and was penalized for sins of intellect. Dick goes on to point out honest opinions were for popularity, book sales, bishopric. In college writing essays that got good marks and won applause. He never put up one moment of resistant to the loss of faith. Dick asks him repeatedly to "repent and believe". This he debated and when asked "do you believe in me? will you come with me?", the Episcopal required assurance he was going to a place where he would be needed and a sphere of usefulness. The Spirit persists and asks if he "can at least desire happiness?". The Episcopal says he can't come because he has to get back for a Theological Society meeting in Grey Town. He's working on a paper about what Jesus Christ views would have been had he grown up to be a mature man?. He turned and headed back to the bus. (Chpt 5: pg 33-44)
... more to follow.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 24th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, D. Brown, J. Campbell
We finished the book "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by his Holiness JOHN PAUL II.
Covered pages 196 thru 239. Chapters included: Human Rights, The Defense of Every Life, The Mother of God, Women, Be Not Afraid, and Crossing the Threshold of Hope.
This was a great read!! There were some real tough questions thrown at JPII and his responses were written in an honest and heart-felt way to each and every one of us.
The group is now moving onto The Great Divorce by CS Lewis starting next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 17th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, P. Jasheway, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: "What is the Use of Believing?" pages 188-195.
Had some good discussion about how to discuss with non-catholics the differences between our faith and about the fullness of truth our Catholic faith professes and salvation.
Joe's shared the analogy explained to him by Steven Ray, a Catholic apologist, of a ship. The Pope's the captain. The magesterium/sacraments are the instruments/stars to giude that ship to heaven. We are all called to ride on that ship. Those who jump ship or who never get on are floating on life-rafts. They may reach their destination (or they may not), but their journey will be harder and it be better for them if they stay as close to the ship as possible.
Phil shared an analogy of our fullness of truth to "learning to read". You can get thru life without learning to read, but think of the "truth and knowledge" revealed when one finally learns to read. The same with the fullness in truth of our faith.
Will continue next week on page 196 in the Chapter "Human Rights".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday August 10th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, D. Brown, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: "The Reaction of the World" pages 171-177.
Will continue next week on page 188 in the Chapter "What Is the Use of Believing?".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 20th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, D. Brown, P. Jasheway, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: "Is Only Rome Right?" pages 135-143.
The question is posed: Why among all the Christian Churches should the Catholic Church alone possess and teach the fullness of the Gospel?
JPII response is an explaination of the "Christian doctrine of salvation and of the mediation of salvation, which always originates in God. 'For there is one God'. / There is also one mediator between God and the human race, / Christ Jesus, himself human" (Tim 2:5). "There is no salvation through.. any other name" (Acts 4:12).
It is therefore a revealed truth that there is salvation only and exclusively in Christ. The Church, inasmuch as it is the Body of Christ, is simply an instrument of this salavation. In the first words of Lumen Gentium, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of the Second Vatican Council, we read: The Church is in Christ as a sacrament, or a sign and instrument, of intimate union with God and of the unity of the entire human race.
Man is saved in the Church by being brought into the Mystery of the Divine Trinity. This CANNOT be understood by looking exclusively at the visible aspect of the Church. The Church is a living body. Saint Paul expresses this in his brilliant insights about the Body of Christ (cf Col 1:18)
The Council teaches: "Christ, present among us in His Body which is the Church, is the one mediator and the way to salvation. Expressly asserting the need for faith and baptism (cf Mk 16:16, Jn 3:5), he asserted the need for the Church, which men enter as if through baptism as if through a door. For this reason men cannot be saved who do not want to enter or remain in the Church.
People are saved through the Church, they are saved in the Church, but they always are saved by the Grace of Christ. Although the Catholic Church knows that it has received the fullness of the means of salvation, it rejoices when other Christian communities join her in preaching the Gospel. The Church wants to preach together with all who believe in Christ. It wants to point out to all the path to external salvation, the fundamental principals of life in the Spirit and in truth.
Will continue next week on page 144 in the Chapter "In Search of Lost Unity".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 13th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, P. Jasheway, D. Brown, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: "Is There Really Hope in the Young?" pages 118-126. Covered Chapter: "Was God at Work in the Fall of Communism?" pages 127-134. Will continue next week on page 135 in the Chapter "Is Only Rome Right?".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday July 6th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, D. Collins, J. Campbell
Covered pages 101 - 104 "Minority by the Year 2000" and pages 105 - 117 "What is the new Evangelization?" Will continue next week on page 118 in the chapter "Is there Really Hope in the Young?".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 29th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, P. Jasheway
Fellowship. No discussion of the book this week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 22nd, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: Why So Many Religions? on Pg 77
- Vatican II council define relationship of the Church to non-Christian religions in a specific document that begins with the words "Nostra Aetate" ("In our time"). - Men turn to various religions to solve mysteries of the human condition, which today , as in earlier times, burden people's hearts. - The Church sees the promotin of unity as one of it's duties. There is only one community and it consists of all people. The Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions.
Covered Chapter: Buddha on Pg 84
- Buddhism like Christianity is a religion of salvation, but the doctrines are opposed. - The Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of the Tibetans is a well-known figure to the West. - The "enlightment" experienced by Buddha comes down to the conviction that the world is bad, that it is the source of evil and suffering for man. To liberate oneself from this evil, one must free oneself from this world, necessitating a break with the ties that join us to external reality. - Buddhism is in large measure an "atheistic" system. We do not free ourselves from evil thru the good which comes from God; we liberate ourselves only thru detachment from the world, which is bad. The fullness of such detachment is not union with God, but what is called "Nirvana", a state of perfect indifference with regard to the world.
Covered Chapter: Muhammad on Pg 91
-Islam is a monotheistic religion. -The Church has a high regard for the Muslims who worship one God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, the creator of heaven and earth. -Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the Cross and Resurrection. Jesus is mentioned, but only as a prophet who prepares for the last prophet, Mohammad. - It is impossible not to admire the Muslim's fidelity to prayer.
Covered Chapter: Judaism on Pg 95
- Of all other religions, Judaism is closest to our own - that of the people of God of the Old Testament. - Auschwitz, perhaps the most meaningful symbol of the Holocust of the Jewish people, shows to what lengths a system constructed on principals of racial hatred and greed for power can go. To this day, Auschwitz reminds us that anti-Semitism is a great sin against humanity, that all racial hatred inevitable leads to the trampling of human dignity.
Will resume discussion on Chapter "A Minority By The Year 2000" on Pg 101.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 15th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, D. Brown, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: Why does God tolerate suffering. Pg 64
What is the truth? -Christ's response to Pilate... For this I was born and for this I came into the World, to testify to the truth. -The condemnation of God by man is not based on the truth, but an arrogance, on an underhanded conspiracy. -If the agony on the cross had not happened, the truth that God is love would have been unfounded. God's love is reflected in the freedom he gave us. -God made himself subject to our judgement. -Had some discussion about sin being analogous to a "shotgun". -Had some discussion about natural disasters and they alone aren't evil, yet man's response to them can be. -Christianity is a religion of salvation.
Covered Chapter: What does "To Save" mean. Pg 69
-To save means to liberate form evil. -Damnation is the opposite of salvation. -According to St. Matthew, this resurrection of the bod is to be proceeded by a judgement passed upon the works of charit, fulfilled or neglected. As a result of this judgement, the just are destined to eternal life. There is a destination to eternal damnation as well which consists of the ultimate rejection of God. -The fact that Christianity is a religion of salvation is expressed in the sacramental life of the church. -The fact that Christianity is a religion of salvation is also expressed in worship.
Other books mentioned as good reads include: - From Good to Great by Jim Collins - Quiet Strength by Tony Dungy
Will resume discussion on Chapter "Why so many religions" starting on Pg 77.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 29th, 2008:
Attendees: J. Hudson, P. Jasheway
Fellowship. No discussion of the book this week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 8th, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, J. Campbell
Covered Chapter: "What has become of the "History of Salvation". Pg 50
The fathers of modern rationalism of the Enlightenment period put to one side the true god - in particular; God the Redeemer. The consequence was that man was suppose to live by his reason alone, as if God did not exist.
Much discussion over period of "Enlightenment in Europe and France". Philosophers at that time were promoting the goddess of Reason. or Rationalism... everything in the world can be explained, yet ignored metaphysics. Interesting connection made behind the motivations of some of these men like Descartes (The Cartesian System) and connection to Galileo (1564-1642) his challenging the idea "the world is flat"; Spanish Inquisition, ... The group needs a good historical timeline to reference back to in some of our discussions.
Marty sent out some research notes on Feuerbach, Hegel, Husserl and Heidegger which are posted at the top of the page and linked here: [ LINK ].
Covered Chapter: "The Centrality of Salvation". Pg 54
Rationalism struck at the heart of Christian theology on salvation and redemption. In John 3:16, "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life". Every word of Christ's response to Nicodemus in this passage is a point of contention for those of the mind-set born of the Enlightment.
Another key point in this chapter: Awareness of our own sinfulness, including that which is inherited, is the first condition for salvation. The next is the confession of this sin before God who desires only to receive this confession so that He can save man. To save means to embrace and lift up with redemptive love, with love that is always greater than any sin. The parable of the Prodigal Son is an unsurpassable paradigm.
The History of Salvation not only addresess the question of human history but also confronts the problem of the meaning of man's existence.
Covered Chapter: "Why is there so much Evil in the World?" Pg 60
God created man as rational and free, thereby placing Himself under man's judgement. The history of salvation is also the history of man's continual judgement of God. The Old Testament Book of Job is the paradigm of this judgement.
The crucified Christ is proof of God's solidarity with man in his suffering. God places Himself on the side of man. (Phil 27-8)
The Group loves this book which Dave Collins brought to our attention. Will resume discussion on Page 64 next week on the chapter entitled: Why does God tolerate suffering?
Weekly Discussion for Sunday June 1st, 2008:
Attendees: M. Smith, J. Hudson, D. Collins, J. Campbell Discussed two chapters in the book: "If God Exists, why is he Hiding" and "Is Jesus the Son of God?"
Marty did some homework from last week and brought in a stack of info (source is wikipedia) of backgroup information on many philosophers referenced by John Paul II. Will try to get this online by next week.
Discussed Ludwig Wittgenstein and comments he made about: Philosphical problems arise when language is forced from it proper home an into a metaphysical environment where all the familiar and necessary landmarks and contextual clues are absent. Basically... our language can't begin to describe God. and creates "friction" when we try to explain an infinite God. Jeff had a good analogy to a man trying to have a conversation with a canine. Both creatures of God, but one not having the physical capacity to comprehend the other.
God isn't hiding...? He revealed himself to us thru Jesus Christ and continues to do so in every part of our daily lives.
Back to Descartes: I think, therefore I am. viewpoint is totally opposite to St. Thomas Aquinis who argues you are created, therefore you are able to think. To Christian "believes in order to understand"; but he is also called to "understand in order to believe".
Christ is absolutely original and absolutely unique. No one, Muhammad, Buddha, etc.. every claimed to be God. Christ is the one mediator between God and Humanity.
Will begin on Page 50 next week on the chapter entitled: What has become of the "History of Salvation"?
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 25th, 2008:
Attendees: T. Monte, M. Smith, J. Campbell Discussed two chapters in the book: "Does God Really Exist?" and "Proof": Is it Still Valid? John Paul II references several philosopher's through his answers: Blaise Pascal, Aristole, Plato, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Vladimir Soloviev, Etienne Gilson, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Immanuel Kant, Paul Ricoeur, Emmanuel Levinas, Mircea Eliade, Archbishop Marian Jaworski, Martin Buber.
There was several deep discussion threads going on with the focus on existence and the melding of philosophy and theology:
The Christian "believes in order to understand"; but he is also called to "understand in order to believe".
Reference to the Book of Wisdom and Letter to the Romans - passing from the visible world to the invisible abolute.
St. Thomas Aquinas - Summa Thelogica addresses the question "Does God exist?".
Descartes: I think, therefore I am.
Terms and words: theodicy, positivist, cognitive realism (nothing is in the intellect that was not first in the senses), transempirical, contemporary hermeneutics.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 18th, 2008:
Attendees: D. Collins, M. Smith, T. Monte, J. Campbell Covered two short chapters: Praying: How and Why? and How does the Pope pray? Finished up on page 26. Plan to review the chapter "Does God really exist?" chapter next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 11th, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Dave B., Marty S., Dave C., Phil J. and Joe C. Finished the first chapter entitled: The Pope, a Scandal and a Mystery. Will begin next week on page 15 in the chapter: Praying: How and Why?
Weekly Discussion for Sunday May 4th, 2008:
Attendees: Marty S., Jeff H., Dave B. and Joe C. Discussed pretty much everything having to do with Church history. Discussed topics like the Reformation, Spanish Inquisition, The Great Schism, Constantine/Instanbul and many others. Just some good free flowing conversation which was all over the place. Jeff H. handed out two books to the group that we will begin reviewing next week. One was the current read: Crossing the Threshold of Hope, by John Paul II and the next book, The "Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Apr 27th, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Marty S., Joe C. Discussed the final chapter of "The Abolition of Man" by CS Lewis along with the appendix and notes. Lewis is commenting on the downfall of man and the importance of real values vs perceived values. He arguing how certain teachers are distorting the values of our children.
Reviewed several options for our next read.
They included: - Banner Books Phamplets from "Rose Publishing"... Christian History Time Line, 100 Prophecies filled by Jesus, Islam and Christianity, How we got the Bible, Denominations Comparison; - Lewis Sperry Chaffer "Systematic Theology: Vol 1 and 2. - Pope Benedict XVI "Saved in Hope" Encyclical Letter. - James Nolan - "Doing the Right Thing at Work". - John Paul II - "Crossing the Threshold of Hope".
We had discussed the John Paul II book at our last meeting and we agreed the next read would be "Crossing the Threshhold of Hope".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Apr 20th, 2008:
Attendees: Dave C, Phil J, Joe C. Discussed only a portion of Chpt 2 "The Way". Spent remainder of time in prayer and fellowship.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Apr 13th, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Marty S, Dave B., Dave C., Joe C. Discussed first and second chapters of the new book, CS Lewis - The Abolition of Man book. Jeff H. brought in some book reviews which helped the discussion of moral relativity along. Expect to finish this book up in the next 1-2 weeks.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Mar 30th, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Dave B. Discussed the conclusion of the "Return of the Prodigal Son". Began the intro to the CS Lewis - The Abolition of Man book.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Mar 23rd, 2008: (EASTER SUNDAY)
Attendees: Jeff H., Marty S Completed the "Return of the Prodigal Son". Will begin CS Lewis - The Abolition of Man.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Mar 16th, 2008:
Attendees: Marty S, Jeff H, Tony M, Joe C Began on page 98 at beginning of Chapter 8, "The Father Welcomes Home". Finished on page 119 at the end of chapter 9, "The Father Calls for a Celebration". We had originally planned on finishing the book on Easter, so the group agreed to meet next Sunday, EASTER morning and attempt finish up the final chapter, "Conclusion: Becoming the Father" and "Epilogue: Living the Painting".
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Mar 9th, 2008:
Attendees: Marty S, Dave C, Joe C Began on page 72 in Chapter 5 The Elder Son in the section "Without Joy". Finished all of Chapter 7 - Rembrandt and the Father. Ended on page 97.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Mar 2nd, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H, Tony M, Dave B, Dave C, Phil J, Joe C Completed review and discussion of Part II. The Elder Son. Which son are we - The younger son or the older son? Good discuss about the obedient son who stayed home. Much resentment there. How do we ensure our obedient childern aren't resentful when they grow up? More difficult than dealing those than are outright rebellous ones. The word "Prodigal" isn't in Luke 15? Where did it come from? Looked at Joe's NAB (New American Bible). What was the biblical context parable of the lost son. All three parables: parable of the lost sheep, parable of the lost coin and the parable of the lost son were delivered by Jesus to the Pharisees at the same time. Different bible's exist, which is correct, which should we follow?
We plan to cover Part III next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Feb 24, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H, Marty S, Tony M, Dave B, Dave C, Joe C Completed review and discussion of Part I. (1) Rembrandt and the younger son; (2) The Younger Son Leaves; (3) The Younger Son Returns. Dave Collins brought in a book of artwork and it contained a much better picture of Rembrandt's "Prodigal Son". We found a web definition of "Prodigal" means lavish. Webster's dictionary defines it as "squander". We plan to cover Part II next week.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Feb 17, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Marty S, Dave C, Tony M, Phil J and Joe C Discussed web site identiy. Not just a book club, not a traditional bible study group. Men's fellowship is at our core along with Study Group. Connection to Men's Ministry. We are a Catholic group, but need to be inclusive of non-catholics. Direct inquires about membership should be directed to Marty. Member info on site is optional. Correct Karl's name spelling. Jeff H. passed out the new "Return of the Prodigal Son" books. Covered the first 20 pages. We will cover Part 1 next week and try to get thru all 3 parts in 3 weeks. Marty had researched the author, Nenri Nouwen. The next book is "The Abolition of Man" by CS Lewis. Jeff to begin working on ordering new books.
Weekly Discussion for Sunday Feb 3, 2008:
Attendees: Jeff H., Marty S, Dave C, Dave B, Joe C Reviewed chapters "The Romance of Orthodoxy" and pages 139-140 in "Authority and the Adventurer". Discussed next book to read. Considering: CS Lewis and Scott Hahn books. Marty brought a long list of CS Lewis books to consider. Decided upon: The Return of the Prodigal Son by Henri Nouwen. Jeff to purchase several copies for distribution next Sunday.
